Ali: Ok, we are recording, it's definitely recording 

C: How do we know for sure?

Ali: You can see the seconds going by on it.

E: Can you hear me!?

C: Alright, let's get into it. How are y'all doing today? 

Ali: Good, Good, well, I'm seeing you guys today.

C: Y'all blessed and highly favored?

Ali: I think so 

E: Is there one God or multiple?

Ali: Let's not get into politics. 

Eli: There's gotta be a few.

C: I can hear that.

Ali: Let's just get the Israel question out of the way.

WHO ARE YOU?

Ali: My name is Ali Mortazavi. I grew up in Maryland, uhh, my occupation is a software engineer, which sucks.

E: We can bleep that out.

Ali: Yeah, bleep that out. I also run a coffee company called Realm, umm yeah, I play guitar and do vocals in the band in the live thing, and obviously in the recording we work together. 

Eli: I'm Eli. I also grew up in Maryland. 

E: Last name?

Eli: Schwelling, well, Elijah Schwelling, we grew up in the same area but didn't know each other as children, thank god.

Eli: I also work for [ ]. Bleep that out. I'm not allowed to represent them. That's actually a legal thing. I'm also a software engineer. Gotta pay the bills. And I don't really do a whole lot outside of that. For the band, we do a little bit of everything. Production. Composition. Arrangement. We play everything.

C: And the live shit?

Eli: Yeah, and the live setup. I just play lead guitar.

E: Are we missing any members today?

Ali: So we have two people who play. Or three people now, I guess, that play in the live setup with us. But in terms of the actual. Headlamp is just us two. Because we record and write everything 

How did you get into music? 

C: Yeah, so just walk us through how you guys got into music in general. So maybe if it started out when you guys were very young, or maybe it developed later in life. How was it for you guys?

Eli: Yeah, my dad actually has a music store in Maryland called Atomic. So he's kind of a big music person. So we would be around there just in the store as kids. And also they played a lot of music for us. I remember Pet Sounds. I got a CD of Pet Sounds from my dad's friend. Actually, that was huge. Then I don't know, around middle school or something got FL, the old FL Studio. Started cooking stuff up there. It was electronic stuff, whatever. Eventually, I picked up a guitar and then moved into more indie stuff. Shoegaze, and what have you.

E: Earlier, you said you don't do anything outside of Headlamp, but don't you have your whole solo like ambient act?

Eli: Oh, yeah, yeah. So I started in college making my own indie music. The ambient stuff is more recent. I've always liked electronic music. I like those synths. Honestly, a lot of video games from the late '90s, 2000s, I got really into those sounds as a kid. I was super fascinated with just the way they composed. A lot of those were really serious composers. I learned a lot about melody and other aspects from them. I think my solo stuff is kind of more of a reflection of that. You know, trying to tap into that. With my guitar stuff, but also my electronic stuff. It's a big influence. 

Ali: Yeah, Halogen, you've been recording for Halogen Beaches stuff for a long time. You've released how many albums?

Eli: Four. One of them was ass, so it's gone. But, yeah, I released an album earlier this year. It's more of a folk thing. It’s called Halogen Beaches. Yeah, check it out. It's pretty different from our stuff. The inspiration's very different. It's a bit cornier, a bit sweeter.

E: It’s really good. So, Ali, what was your journey with music like?

Ali: I feel like you have a more familial musical background. I didn't grow up in a musical family at all. My dad listened to Pink Floyd, like Fleetwood Mac. I grew up listening to a lot of that. In elementary school they got me my first guitar, which I actually used until about three years ago. I basically just started learning songs that I liked. So at the time, it was Mac DeMarco and other indie boy bullshit. I just learned that way.

C: Hobo Johnson.

E: You're a Mac DeMarco ass dude.

Ali: Come on, man. We all have our dark past. But actually, you know, I'll say right now, Mac DeMarco's is great. I love Mac DeMarco.

C: But did he do it?

Ali: Do what?

C: Just asking.

Eli: Speaking of video game music, I saw a quote where Mac DeMarco was like, "I only listen to the Beatles and video game music." Yeah, he's also a big influence.

E: That's why he makes bullshit. Nah, I’m playing. I liked him a lot in high school too.

Ali: I basically just played in my room alone for a long time until I met Eli in college, and then we started. Well, we didn't even really start producing anything together until he moved up here, after that we started slowly working on stuff.

THE ORIGIN OF HEADLAMP?

Ali:  I think it's kind of rare to find someone that you actually enjoy making music with that feels like an actual collaborative process. Usually, it's not a balanced situation.

E: But how did that happen, though? 

Ali: Well, we didn't have that many friends here.

C: Also, talk about the origins of Headlamp

Ali: I mean, I guess it started that one day I came over, I brought my guitar over to Eli’s who had just recently moved out to NYC. We both were interested in music, but the first time we played together was so bad.

Eli: It was terrible, yeah.

Ali: Because we weren't trying to actually write music. We were trying to, like, jam. But we quickly realized that we're not jamming artists.

Eli: I think we didn't even know what the other liked musically. I mean, we knew each other, but I don't think we knew each other that deeply. So at the same time as we were learning to make music together, we learned we had a lot in common too. I think that we have a lot in common in terms of aesthetic influences, which is just serendipitous.

Ali: Then finally, the next session we, like, actually said, "You know, why don't we just fucking get into the studio?"  So we just started writing.

Eli: Yeah, we realized we're not jamming. Jamming is not gonna work so let’s try to put some shit down.

E: So you just did that shit? You just pulled up with your guitar Ali?

Eli: Uh, no, we knew, 'cause he hit me up and I think- correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you had heard some of my work already.

Ali: Like, "Halogen Beaches" stuff? Yeah, I definitely heard it. I'd be like, "Oh, this is cool."

C: So you were a fan before you met him?

Ali: Yeah, let's just say I was a little bit of a fanboy, and I was in his DMs and shit.

Eli: A lot of times, you know, in the studio, I'll do something, you know, that's an instinct I have from "Halogen Beaches" or from my other inspirations, and Ali would be like, "Hold on. You gotta curb that." Which is good. I mean, that's a part of what makes Headlamp fun and interesting.

SHARING OWNERSHIP?

C: You guys touched a little bit on it, earlier but you were saying how it's so nice to make music with someone you mesh so well with. Headlamp is a collective project, so how is it balancing out who does what?

Ali: I don't think we have a clear philosophy on that. Which is kind of the beauty of it. Usually one of us will come with something very simple, like a very simple melody. It's usually a guitar melody. Then we just record that, and start adding pieces onto it from there. I would say Eli probably does more of the groundwork, not sure how to say it.

Eli: Production?

Ali: Yeah, you're more of a producer than I am, I would say.

Eli: But I would say more often than not, you come in with a chord progression or with a basic demo I mean, it's generally pretty intuitive. It’s not the most intentional process.

Ali: It's not something we've really had to even give much thought to, 'cause I feel like it's pretty organic.  Usually the way it works is you'll hear the melody, and then you'll think of another melody that would sound good on top of it. Then we just keep adding layer after layer. And then there's the whole, sonic landscape that we're trying to achieve. Usually that incorporates a lot of sounds that we're familiar with and use frequently. Then it creates this kind of consistent sound.

Eli: Yeah, it's conversational, basically. There's no rules or divisions of labor.

Ali: We would never say something is either of our “parts”.

E: Ali handles the 808s.

Ali: Yeah. I'm usually on the 808s.

Eli: Ali is kind of a bass boy.

Ali: Yeah. What do they call them? Bass bunnies?

E&C: What are you talking about?

Eli: I don't know what you're on about, man.

Ali: Cut that, cut that, cut that.

E: I'm keeping that on, actually.

C: What is he talking about?

E: Bass bunnies.

C: Let's talk about the name Headlamp. Where did that come from?

Ali: Yeah, Headlamp. I had a big list on my Notes app of band names that I would come up with whenever I was drunk or high. To be honest, 99% of them were shit.

C: Like? Give us some examples.

Ali: Like, um.

E: Bass Bunny? The Bass Bunnies?

Ali: I can't remember them, but let's just not bring that up. I mean, some of them actually are interesting, but they're usually just bullshit. Like, Teva Tanline or, like, Half Time Oranges or some bullshit.

Eli: You know Guided By Voices? They'll just say shit like that.

Ali: Yeah, just kind of nonsensical. Peppa Pig Dab Pen? That was one of them.

Eli: Peppa Pig Dab Pen's pretty good.

E: You guys would make hyperpop if you were called that.

Ali: Yeah, exactly. That's a different project.

Eli: We could do that. Ali lets me break out the synths.

Headlamp was actually a typo. It was supposed to be "Man, I wish I had brought my fucking headlamp." Then I accidentally clicked return on the keyboard. So, the next line simply said Headlamp and we just kind of decided on that. I feel it kind of fits with what we are doing. A lot of the music is, I would say, darker, and what is a Headlamp? It's shining light into a dark space. We're navigating through something. 

Eli: I just liked it. I just like how it sounds. I agree that it’s fitting too, headlamp as a tool.

Ali: When we were recording the EP, I kept having this image in my head of a caravan-style car with trinkets and stuff all over it. And it's driving through a foggy nighttime scene. I imagine the headlights or the Headlamp of the car. Illuminating the way.

C: So you just mentioned the EP you guys recorded. Talk a little bit about the creative process of that. I read on the post that it took you guys like two years from writing to release.

E: Give us the name first.

Eli: The EP was called "Range Grade Brightness." It's only on Bandcamp now because I think what we're trying to do now is very different.

Ali: We were just figuring out how to record with each other for the EP..

Eli: Yeah, we were thematically. We were reading a bunch of PKD. You know Philip K. Dick? He's, like, a sci-fi author from the '60s. We were obsessed with him in a very kind of nerdy way. We thought he was awesome.

Ali: Well, he wrote this book called "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?"

E: Oh, I've heard of that.

Eli: Everyone knows Blade Runner.

Ali: It's what Blade Runner is based on. So we both read that and just loved it, the world-building is awesome. There’s robotic themes on that EP, there's a part where we literally use a robot voice. I think that was the main inspiration for that. It was really more of an exploratory project and a learning process, frankly. That is why we removed it from most streaming services. It felt different, but also, to me, it didn't feel like a finished product in a lot of ways.

Eli: Yeah, not to be corny, but again, we were really learning about each other. In terms of our individual creative processes and what we each draw on in terms of our musical inspiration. 

Ali: Sonically, I think we were also shot. We had a lot of reverb on everything and one of the biggest critiques that everyone gave us was, like, "Yeah, this is cool, but, like, it'd be cool if we could actually hear what you're saying”. The vocals were drowned out with reverb because we didn’t want them to sound too dry.

Eli: Vocals are hard too, you gotta be more vulnerable. Ready to expose yourself that way.

Ali: I think we opened up a little bit more on that album.

E: When did you start singing, Ali?

Ali: Honestly, that… Well, do you mean just in general? Because I sang in the shower when I was a kid. This is my first time actually singing in a recorded fashion. I don't know why we decided to do that, why we decided to have me sing.

Eli: I don't really like singing all that much.

Ali: I remember you said you were tired of hearing your voice a lot, because, you know, "Halogen Beaches," you were singing on everything. So I guess kind of to just change it up?

Eli: Yeah, I don't love my range. I don't really like being out front either, generally. So I think it was nice to have Ali be in front. We're equally involved, but it's nice to be a little more shy. I also enjoy Ali's voice a lot, so that obviously helps.

EP to ALBUM?

Eli: Well like Ali touched on, we definitely wanted it to be less drowned out. We wanted drier vocals, harsher guitar sounds.

Ali: We have more folk influence on this one. There's more finger-picking and shit like that. I feel because of what we were listening to when we were recording the EP, we initially wanted to make a shoegaze project. I think now, with the album, it's more of a wider range of influences. I think that comes across sonically. That kind of is what makes it, like, less drowned out, a little bit drier.

Eli: Yeah, yeah. Just taking reverb off shit. We would just put reverb on anything. Every step

E: "East by Sailing West" out now.

Ali: Check it out on Candlepin Records.

Eli: Yeah, shout out to Candlepin Records.

Eli: That guy's awesome.

E:  I got a question for Eli, specifically. When we bumped into each other at… was it Wonder?

Eli: Oh, yeah, Wonderville.

E: It was the weekend the album came out, so we briefly talked about it. In there I said my favorite song off of the album was “Never Coming Back.” Afterwards you kinda scoffed and called it Ali’s emo song.

Eli: It was a loving scoff.

E: So when it comes to creating music, how much of your inspirations are aligned? Or is it different? Because you attributed that song to being Ali's emo song. Is there, like, Eli's happy song on the album as well?

Eli: I think, generally, I bring some more cornball shit to the mix. I think you need a little bit of that. But I think Ali pared it down a little bit. He may inject a little more melancholy, like a little more seriousness. I mean, I think that song in particular, I'll let Ali speak on that, but it is definitely more of a personal narrative. Again, Ali can correct me if I'm wrong, but the second half of the album, lyrically, is definitely more of a personal thing. The stuff that is less personal, which maybe is more in the first half, that's kind of narrative stuff. We were coming up with stories and characters together and seeing what we could get out of them. The second half, including that song, which is one of my favorites, too, is definitely more of an Ali thing.

Ali: In general, I feel we tend not to get too personal. I feel some of our favorite songs lyrically are songs where the artist is kind of just describing a character or a scene or like a motif. So I think in general we do enjoy telling a story and approaching a song as characters. I mean that song in particular, I think it definitely has some personal significance. But in general, I think it's more about evoking images and characters.

Eli: Yeah, and even in that song despite being personal, the lyrics were written collaboratively. 

Ali: Yeah, yeah. It's never the case that, like, I would come with a fully fleshed out sheet of lyrics.

Eli: I think that's one of the best parts of doing the music collaboratively.  You're trying to understand the other person's vision for the song, you're trying to align with them emotionally. Once you understand where they are pulling from, that’s when you can begin to collaborate.

Ali:  We're basically practicing empathy. Yeah, it sounds so corny, but it's true. Trying to understand each other, but also the characters we create. We try to get into the headspace of them.

E: It's a lot of storytelling.

Ali: Yeah, the storytelling is the most fun part.

Eli: Yeah, some of it's just fun. Not every track is super personal for us. I mean, we might empathize with some of the feelings that that character has, but we're not literally in that situation.

CANDLEPIN RECORDS?

Eli: That is a label in Boston that we found online that just puts out really cool shit all the time. We reached out to Aiden, who runs it, and he was kind enough to take an interest and put our album on cassette.  We'll be getting a hold of that, I think, late summer, which is now. So, we'll see.

Ali: Any day now. When we finished it, we just kind of were shopping it around. We didn't think anyone would have any interest in a project that we put out. Luckily, he liked what we were working on and the vision we had.  He’s a super chill guy. He's not taking any money or anything. It's just purely supportive. I think we wanted to be on a label because we're now a part of this community of artists who are making music in a similar realm.

Eli: Yeah, we played with a couple of artists on the label as well, who are based in Brooklyn.

Ali: It's cool to have label mates. Additionally, we haven't done this yet, but he can assist us with things like touring. He knows venues all around, and he’s also in a band, and he's toured. If we need help booking something, he would totally be down to help. It's just nice to have that. We want to be part of a community of artists.

E: Shout out to Aiden.

C: How is it for you guys, because Eli, you said you don't usually be the center of attention. When you're part of a musical act, and you're performing live, you are kind of forced to be. Do you enjoy being the center of attention Ali?

Ali: No? I wouldn't say so.

C: So how is that counteracting your natural nature, but forcing yourself to do something, like music, putting yourself out there? Are there any internal struggles that you guys face?

Eli: I don't know. I think it's harder for me, but again because Ali sings, that's huge. I just get to play guitar, and I can look at the wall, or whatever. With Halogen Beaches, I've never played live or anything, because I can't do that alone. So, Headlamp, it's been amazing to have Ali and have the other bandmates to lean on.

Ali: We really lean on them. Well, this is also our first band that we're playing live shows with. Our first Headlamp show was both of our first shows ever. I think that that was definitely scary. I'm thinking less of it in terms of being, well, I guess it's kind of intertwined, but less about being in the front, but more just nervous about fucking up. I've never sang and played guitar at the same time. When you record music, you record each part individually. So, learning that process of singing and playing at the same time was actually really difficult.

Eli: Recording music is so different from playing live. You're putting together, you're building something almost. If you fuck up a take, you just record it again. Sometimes we're doing shit when we're recording, and I think in the back of our minds we’re both thinking “I have no idea how we would do this live.”  But in recording you get to just kind of do whatever you want and you can hide behind things like reverb, or you can add another guitar, big synth, or washed-out synth. However, when you’re playing live there's nowhere to hide. Especially because we don't have pedals, really. We got distortion, we have a little bit of reverb, but it's drums, two guitars, and a bass. It's definitely scary.

Ali: Yeah. I mean, also just singing is just something you really have to do or else it's going to sound like shit. Whereas with the guitar, I can kind of go through the motions of it, and it'll sound like a guitar. But if you're singing badly, which I'm sure I do all the time, everyone is going to know.

E: Let's talk a little bit more about the reception side of that. How's that feeling to perform live, get some cheers, get some cries.

C: Because I was there. I was there for them live.

E: Getting bras thrown on stage, you know. 

Ali: Yeah, the bras, it's so annoying.

Eli: It's really hard for Ali. He's gotten pretty good at deflection.

Ali: I gotta move. It's a window wipe, window wash.

C: Because he's seen something he likes.

E: He goes, "Except that one, I want that one."

Ali: That one? That one is crazy.

Ali: But yeah. It has been really nice. No, it's been nice because people always give us positive feedback. I suppose we all seek validation, like any human being. Oh yeah. I don't know. How do you feel about it?

Eli: It's fun. It's also just fun to play once you're not nervous. It is just fun. It's joyful.

Ali: We obviously like playing music, that's why we're musicians.

Eli: Especially when we started rehearsing.

Ali: Yeah, it's like the first time that I've played with multiple people at the same time. There's an element of live music that you just can't capture in recordings. Not to sound corny, but it's true.

C: It sounds corny, 

E: But that's how it came out.

Eli: No, like recording is not as fun. It's not as fun?

Ali: What are you talking about?

Eli: No, recording is fun, but it's like—

Ali: It's a totally different itch.

Eli: Yeah, it's a different feel.

E: But you still like to scratch it and stuff?

Eli: Of course, we like to scratch and stuff.

C: And sniff?

E: You would try everything at least once?

Ali: I mean, to a degree.

C: He's PR trained. To a degree is an excellent answer.

C: But I wanted to ask you guys more about the album and the creative process behind that. Where were you guys physically and mentally when creating the album?

Ali: I was not living here. Eli was not living in his current place. But we record mainly in either my apartment or his. We have these small studio setups. Yeah, I guess I'll let you talk.

Eli: I mean, that's the gist, right? We're in that apartment. We have one mic normally. We have an interface. And a laptop and stuff. And some controllers.

Ali: It's also recorded during such a large amount of time that it's hard to say what state we were in while we were recording. It takes us a long time to record music. I would say. Probably longer than most bands. Mainly because it's just the two of us.

Eli: You know, work and all that bullshit. It takes a long time to come up with the palette for the album. Especially because we don't have many constraints. We have to… We have to decide everything ourselves. I'm trying to think of how to express this coherently. You have to write the music, then you have to decide what the sound is. Because we have the one mic set up, we're not using real amps. We're using digital synths.

Ali: Yeah. We can kind of go in whatever direction we want to go, which makes it take a long time.  Also you're trying to make a work that's coherent sonically. So you might use a similar synth throughout the entire project. I guess we're not even fucking answering what the hell they're talking about. Yeah, what was the question?

C: I was trying to find out what you guys were emotionally feeling. Not all this technical stuff.

Eli: I think for me, honestly, it is. I don't know if I'm conscious of what emotion is going into it, ever. I think the reality is by the time we write the lyrics, I'm aware. But when we're just recording the music, it's just like, "Does this sound good?  Does this make me excited to hear these sounds together?" If the answer is yes, I just go down that path. Yeah, I guess it's less emotional.

Ali: Well, I guess when we were recording it, I was definitely not in a good space, mentally. But I don't know if certain songs, like "Never Coming Back", are definitely an emo song. Which I think kind of draws on how I was feeling at the time. But in general, I do agree that I don't think of it as much as emotion, more so as I think we approach it a little bit more technically, in that way, where we're trying to just make something that we enjoy listening to.

Eli: Yeah, and I think for the intuitive, emotional component, we're just not as conscious. It's there, obviously. It's a motivation. It comes out. But sometimes you record something, and then later you know what it's about. But when you record it, it's not that we're like, "Let's make something sad today. Let's make a sad song." You just start playing shit. Then later, you're like, "Oh yeah, this is about this character doing this."

E: Do you think you'd get mad at Ali if it was the sixth time you guys were in the studio and he was like, "I'm gonna make a song about my ex for the day."

Eli: I don't care, man. Honestly, it’s whatever… We've definitely never gotten mad at each other in the studio. Well, I'll speak for myself.

Ali: I've never gotten mad at you.

Eli: No, I know. No, I mean, I would just if that were to happen. It's not even like that. It either will work or it won't. If Ali wanted to write about that, and I wasn't able to get in, then we wouldn’t be able to make the song.

Ali: Then it wouldn't work. It would be awkward. It's our project.

Eli: But if Ali came to the studio and was like, "I want to write about this," and I'm like, "Yeah, I get what you're trying to say here," or I think I do, or I think I'm empathizing with this, then yeah, it'll work.

Ali: We were talking about earlier, the practicing empathy thing. I think you can get into my headspace if that were to be.

C: Into your Headlamp.

WHAT CLASS OF FANTASY CHARACTER WOULD YOU BE?

Ali: Are we talking like class?

E: We're talking class. Party member.

Ali: I want to be a paladin.

E: That's what you want to be, but what about you answering for each other?

Ali: Wait, wait. Can you give me more parameters?

E: The limits of your imagination.

Ali: Oh, really? There's no set character?

E: I mean, if you wanted to say you're a little rat man, then maybe you're a little rat man.

Ali: I don't like that notion, and I don't like what that insinuates.

E: Exactly.

C: Who said that?

Ali: Yeah, I mean, what would Eli be? I think he'd be like...

C: I think I have an answer for Eli.

Ali: I think he'd be a farmer.

Eli: I like that, very down-to-earth.

E: No, he gave him a shit job.

Eli: It's because I'm connected to nature.

Ali: No, I think that you're very stoic. And like, something about a farmer just kind of… I can just see you like… What is that shit called?

E&C: Hoeing.

Ali: Yeah, I can see you hoeing down.

E: Is he a hard worker?

Ali: Yeah.

Eli: That took you a kinda long time. 

Ali: I was definitely going to say yes, obviously. But that reminded me of the story you told me about how your dad would wake you up every weekend and make you just chop wood.

Eli: Yeah, well, we had a wood chipper and a dump truck. So we would drive around to people's houses, like for example if a tree fell down. We would take care of it, chip that thing up and get some cash. But at first, I didn't take to it.

Ali: Obviously.

Eli: Eventually though, I got used to it. And when I finally stopped complaining about it, he stopped making me do it.

Ali: I like the part where your dad just said, "The day you stop complaining about it, he stops making you do it." He taught you.

Eli: I think it was good.

E: Characteristics of a farmer.

C: Do you have an answer for Eli?

E: I was going to call him an elf.

C: I was going to call him an elf archer. I was going to say Archer or a dwarf because you're very technical in music. You're very technical, and you know what you're talking about.

Ali: Like Tinker.

Eli: I like that.

C: And you also don't like to be on the front lines, so you'd be in the back.

ing at you, thinking about that.

C: Oh, my God. Locked in 

E: Do you want a farmer at your party? I guess that makes sense. 

Ali: I'm not thinking of it in terms of battle. I'm thinking of it in typical headlamp fashion.

E: Oh, he's just an NPC.

Ali: I'm world-building.

Eli: You remember how I said we learn about each other through this process. I'm learning a lot right now.

E: You'd be like peasant number one. I think 

Eli: You guys are going to break the band up.

Ali: God forbid we have an honest person like that.

Eli: What are you guys trying to say? I'm playing both sides here.

E: Every character fulfills a role in the fantasy setting, but I think Eli has more to offer.

Ali: So you're saying farmers are not important?

C: I'm not taking a farmer to fight a dragon.

Ali: But you need the farmer to eat anything. What did your party eat before they fought the dragon? That's right.

E: Eli has cooked a beautiful welcome-back dinner for the heroes. He comes back and he's like, "This was made with tomatoes from my garden."

Eli: I'm cool with that.

Ali: I realized I wasn't thinking of it in terms of D&D.

E: What were you thinking?

Ali: Just a fantasy world. I was thinking, what would we be in a feudal world?

Eli:  I think Ali would be a paladin. A bit of a warrior. A bit of a healer.

E: A bit of a lover as well.

Eli: Definitely.

Ali: What the hell is that?

EIi:  I don't know. I'm just going along with what he's saying.

Ali: That's the problem with you, we're about to have a really crazy fight.

Eli: You guys are going to want to clear off . You fucked up the D&D question. You fucked it up.

Ali: You called me a fucking paladin?

C: You said you wanted to be a paladin. 

Ali: I'll take Paladin.

E: You just said you wanted to be a paladin. Now you're acting like you're trying to be cool on it.

Ali: I want to be a miner.

E&C: A MINOR? You want to be a minor?

Ali: No, not like a young person. I want to mine for ore.

E: Who thinks of a miner in a fantasy setting?

Ali: Put me down there, man.

Eli: If you're a miner and I'm a farmer, we're both not in combat. That's fine. I think we should not be… We're not fighters. We're pacifists. Everyone knows we can't fight.

E: I guess you would probably live longer than all of us. 

Ali: Because we'd be eating that organic shit that he grew.

C: No, your lungs would be full of fucking ash. If you were a miner your lungs would be fucked.

Eli: I'm making kombucha. I'm making medieval kombucha.

Ali: I'm getting black lung.

E: To be honest, I feel like this is the exact type of response you'd expect if you asked a bunch of tech guys what they were doing in a fantasy world. The lack of imagination is just wonderful.

Ali: God forbid we don't want to be a goddamn main character like you guys.

E: Who said I'm the main character?

Eli: You said it, but you didn't say it.

E: I'm not the main character.

Ali: We just want to contribute to the world in positive ways. Which is actually frankly not what software engineers would think.

BALANCING WORK AND MUSIC?

Ali: I think that both of us are like, we just treat it as a means of making a living, really. It basically stops as soon as we leave.

Eli: Obviously, the feeling you get from well, I won't generalize. The feeling I think we get from making music is very, very different from the feeling we get from coding all day.

Ali: I think we literally make music to satisfy certain needs we have that don’t get satisfied at work. It's basically like the other half of what we need to fulfill.

C: Do you guys see yourself doing music for the rest of your lives?

Ali: I think that we would make music regardless of whether it were released at all.

Eli:  I don't think I would ever hear music I like, and then not be like, damn, you know? It inspires you.

C: What is that feeling like? Do you want to make something that other people can enjoy, or is it just something for you?

Ali: Yeah, it definitely feels more a self thing for me, but it's more like an itch. As mentioned earlier, it's an itch that needs to be scratched. I think when I listen to something that inspires me, it could be the sound, the way a drum sounds on a particular song, I'll remember it. I want to achieve something like that. It's mainly just like any other creative process. It's like painting, whatever, just a means of expression, really, and I can't see how that could ever stop. 

Eli: It's just it's like just another way to express yourself and it's less literal. You don't have to explain yourself. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's a more abstract form of self-expression.

Ali: All right, yeah, we're not saying this is who I am, but it obviously comes out.

E: Yeah, different aspects of you come out in music.

C: Do you guys introduce yourselves as musicians?

Ali: I would say make music. I don't know if I'd use the word musician, even though I'm not necessarily opposed to it.

Eli: I don't know you. Yeah, I don't. I have imposter syndrome. Yeah, I mean, because of my general lack of success. So, I mean, we are musicians, but like I 

Ali: It's easier to claim that we make music; it's just a fact. Yeah, but there's some weird baggage that gets added when you say you're a musician.  Maybe we're scared of people being like “Oh, really? Like you're a musician, like yeah, show me your shit,” I don't know, even though we could just show them the album., 

C: Is there a moment that has to happen before you start jacking yourselves as musicians? 

Ali:I don't know if it's like that, but I feel it's the same thing as, oh, are you a New Yorker?  I don't think there's something like a certain number of years or an achievement that would make me say I'm a musician.

Eli:  I would say we are musicians, like objectively. But I don’t think it’s something that I often bring up in conversation when meeting people.

Ali: I think it's just we don't want to imply that we're above anyone who makes music, we're just like anyone else. Maybe if we could support ourselves with music, and someone was like, What do you do? Maybe then I'd say, 'I'm a musician.'

Eli: That would be sick, you know. For now, I have to say, Oh, I'm a coder. Say it quietly. I hope they don't hear. Oh, but I make music, too. 

E: You guys think that making music together has brought you any closer at all?

Ali:  I feel I understand Eli, maybe second best out of anyone, yeah, I mean, obviously besides his partner.

E: You called him a farmer… 

Ali: That's if you think that's a negative thing, then that's on you.

Eli: Yeah, I know 100%. I think it's a particular type of understanding you get. To go back to what I said before, like I've tried to make music with other people since and most of the time it just doesn't work. It only works if you can grow close with someone as a part of the process, like getting to that place where you're drawing on the same thing.

Ali: You have to feel so comfortable, I feel if either of us were to make a suggestion now we would be able to say no if either of us didn’t feel it.  We're so comfortable saying that to each other and you kind of have to be when you're making music. That level of openness obviously brings you very close together, and also I just learn a lot from Eli.

WHAT’S NEXT?

Ali: I want to just play more live music. I really want to get really good at it. I feel both of us feel somewhat confident about our ability to record music. But I want to feel that level of confidence for our live shit and just kind of explore that as a medium. We are always recording things, we have stuff in the pipeline, definitely.  I want to continue to do this and continue to evolve. To sharpen our head lamp, or defog it. To really shine down on some shit.

Eli: That's a good answer, man.

E: Yeah, I like that.

Eli: I second that. Like that too.

Ali: We have like a couple singles that might release as an A-side B-side. These songs will be a little bit harder, just sonically. After we started rehearsing and playing the live shit I think that we've learned a lot about the song structures like what works in live music. Maybe that's having a slight influence in recording. We were itching to play something harder in a live set, so we recorded a couple songs that I think go a little harder.

Eli: Yeah, 100% I think like again, it's like an energy thing. When you're on stage, you want to be loud, we want to be loud.

Ali: We hear bands doing something similar and we're drawing from them, you know. Trying to make the live shit feel more dynamic.

Eli: Yeah, you got a synth, so that's new. We got a synth now for the live shows, which will be really cool.

Ali: I assume you guys heard our album, I mean there's a lot of synth on it 

C: #glowing!

Ali: You like that one?

C: Yeah.

E: Nah, “Never Coming Back” is the best song. Let's debate.

Eli: That's good that they feel like that because you wrote the demo for Never Coming Back, and I wrote the demo for #glowing.

C: Any shoutouts?

Ali: Shout out Aiden, Candlepin Records. 

Eli: Which is his contact name? Yeah, I don't know your last name, but we love you.

Ali:  Greg Obis, the guy who mastered it. Oh, yeah, we were lucky to have someone mix and another person master the album, and they both worked on projects that we're huge fans of.

Eli: Alex Farrar, for our mix as well, it was amazing. Yeah, he helped us out a lot because our budget is not super big, but they both made it sound like real music.

Ali: I think they just understood what we were trying to achieve, and it's just hard to do that just directly from recordings. So yeah, shout out to them, shout out to Aiden, well, shout out to Andre, big shot. Andre gave us the album title.

Eli: Yeah, he did give us the album title “East by Sailing West.” Generally super helpful and supportive.

E: Let's just shout him out for looking good.

Ali: So true. You look good. He knows that, too, yeah, 

C: That's the worst part.

E: Actually fuck Andre. Thank you so much, Eli and Ali, for talking to us and making good music.

HEADLAMP JUST RELEASED A BEAUTIFUL ALBUM, IT'S CALLED EAST BY SAILING WEST. GIVE IT A LISTEN. YOU WON'T REGRET IT! BIG THANK YOU TO ALI AND ELI FOR BEING REAL WITH US.

SUBJECT/BRAND : HEADLAMP @headlamp_band

PHOTOGRAPHER : LAURA SONG @gh0stpic

MODEL : HEADLAMP @headlamp_band

EDITOR : E&C* @acediastudios

TEXT : E&C* @acediastudios

STYLIST : ELIZABETH WANG @nastygongzhu

(thank you auntie liz for styling the shoot. even though we made them change out of their outfits <3)