THIS INTERVIEW WAS RECORDED RIGHT OUTSIDE OF A BAR. DUE TO THIS, THE AUDIO WAS NOT THE BEST. WE ALL HAD TO TALK LOUDER.

Albert: I need you to pretend like the best deli sandwich, not the best, but the only good deli sandwich you're ever going to have ever again is on the line. But bro will only make it if he can hear you.

Damn.

Albert: Speak up.

E: He can't hear you over the grill. He's like, "What?"

You don't understand. The deli be making me nervous, bro.

E: Me too, though. I get nervous ordering shit. It's just too many options.

There are way too many options. Yo, bro, have you ever ordered the number, and they look at you like, "This fucking guy, bro."

C: Sometimes, like, food places will call their shit some ridiculous name. I'm not eating the Bumbaclot burger, bro. I'm not ordering the Bumbaclot burger.

E: I remember, bro, like two years ago, Wendy's had this sauce called the S'awesome Sauce. Bro, I'm not fucking asking for S'awesome Sauce. Are you kidding me? Like, “Let me get some S'awesome Sauce.” Yea right.

WHO ARE YOU? 

My name is Sugar. I'm a photographer and director from New Jersey. I'm Senegalese.

C: Talk to him. Big Senegalese in the house.

Do you know that fashion guy? I love that nigga.

C: I'm kinda scared of running into him 

You know what's crazy? He actually puts that shit on, though. I wouldn't wear his outfits, but I respect them.

HOW DID YOU GET INTO PHOTOGRAPHY?

Real shit. I couldn't afford to make movies yet, so I was like, all right, let me take photos instead, and then get good  at that, and hopefully that could afford me a film or a short, but that's kinda how I got into it  

C: So, videography/films have always been your jam? 

E: How long have you been doing photo stuff for?

Like three years ago, yeah, I'm cappin'... it’s more like four years now. 

C: Was there a moment that you knew you could take photography seriously? 

Nigga, the first shoot!

C: What was your first shoot? 

Actually, the second shoot, my first shoot, was with Albert, and I was like, this is sick. My second shoot was with Shandon, and I took a photo of Shandon on this bench. I looked at the picture afterwards and was like, I can make a book for sure.  And for some time, I was only shooting to make a book, but then I realized a book is like 200 pages and it’s something I have to work towards overtime.

E: When it comes to the subject matter of your photos, are there any recurring themes?

I like to shoot my friends; I want to shoot people that would be good in a film.

C: Everything you do is related to the possibility of a film. Is that how you view your lens as a creative?

I think so, I say film loosely—it’s like a world-building exercise every time. I’ll see a location, and i’ll think all right, I need to make an outfit, and I need a model that fits this place perfectly, and I need lights that fit it perfectly. And then, even though I'm taking photos, I'll think of songs and feelings that match it, too, which is basically like a film.

SUPPORT FROM FAMILY 

C: So you mentioned you're big Senegalese, right? My dad's Nigerian—and my mom's Filipino. Ethan has Asian parents. So you know how there's a struggle

--Nigga, I thought he was going to be like, "Ethan is Nigerian." Like we’re all black men here.

[Laughter]

C: But, do you know how there's a struggle with being creative but also having the support of your family? Is that the same struggle you go through, or is your family very supportive? 

Nah, my mom is getting more supportive now. But for the most part, my mom was not artistically supportive, even when I was younger; I guess I started with self-expression with outfits and stuff. My mom was like, "mmcht these niggas not jackin’ this outfit aint no way."

E: How did that make you feel back then not getting the support from your family?

Fucking shitty, but also kinda regular because I feel like stereotypically African parents aren't very supportive of creative shit, they kind of want you to be an engineer or something. Mind you, they don't even know what an engineer is; they just want you to be that, or like a doctor, like something that pays six figures, like a high five-figure. But yeah, it didn't make me feel good. But while I say that, it is so common that I just got over it. It's almost like asking a black kid how it feels not to have a dad. You're like, bro, all my homies don't have dads whatever.

E: So where do you think you found the support instead if it didn't come from your mom? Where do you think you found that support system that pushed you to keep going? Or was it just like, I gotta do this?

I think it's mostly I gotta do this, but also like I'm pretty lucky with friendship. Like, I can't say I've had a lot of shitty friends. Most of my friends are super tight. So like, if I do some shit that's butt, Albert will be like, yo, that shit's kind of ass. But he'll be like, all right, but let's keep it going, you know what I mean? But yeah, I think mostly self-driven, but my friends definitely help a lot, like all the time.

E: Shout out to Albert.

Yeah, shout out to Albert.

C: Shout out to Albert; he's right here.

Yeah. Shout out Shandon.

C: So I was checking your LinkedIn.

Nigga, you found my LinkedIn?

C: Do you have a LinkedIn?

No.

C: Oh, then that must be someone else, bro.  But, were you working at Summit 1 Vanderbilt?

Oh my fucking god. Yeah, I was.

E: He just lied about having a Linkedin?

C: Talk about that. How was it with shooting over there? I hate that place.

Nah, I deleted my shit, but I guess not.

C: No, I still found it.

Bro, I hated Summit so much. That was like my worst job ever.

C: Yeah, but you were still doing photography there. So, talk a little bit about the experience.

It wasn't like shooting; it was like pushing a button, though.  Yeah, it's almost like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. You know how the dad was like just putting the chocolate in the box and then sending it over. Imagine that, but like no chocolate, just like rude white tourists.

E: Oh, so you were taking pictures of it?

White people.

E: Vanderbilt. What is that?

It's a skyscraper. A lot of my coworkers would call it Sky Prison.

C: So you were doing that for how long?

Like three, two years. Two, three years, yeah.

E: They were paying you a lot? 

Fuck no. 

C: So that was your first experience using your skill set to get paid.

Nah.

C: So how is it now that you're, I'm just gonna say it for that segue.

Oh, my bad, my bad, my bad. Been making paper. [Laughter] Been making chicken.

FREELANCE 

C: So talk about that little like experience as a freelance photographer, doing it for brands and stuff. How is it navigating that, as you don't have a manager? We talked about that today.

Yeah, I want one. I think getting paid is so awkward just because I'll tell someone, yo, I need 400 for this or like 600 for a shoot. And they’ll say nah, can't do that. But the whole time, nigga, I want 100 bands from you, like, what are you talking about? Yo, like 400 is light work for the effort it takes to shoot, develop, and edit. Even though I understand, when it's a regular person like I'm not fresh, I'll fuck around and shoot you for like whatever you could pay me.

C: So who's like your type of, I guess you would say your clientele is? 

I feel like mostly artists hit me to shoot like musicians.

C: Like, name some.

Yeah, yeah. None are coming up to my head right now, but...

E: You know Drake?

I know Drake.

C: I did that.

Damn, I'm blank. Yo, Albert, maybe you can help me. Mercury? Yeah, Mercury, she's like a rapper from Atlanta. I just shot her; that was sick.

C: That was recent?

That was maybe three or four months ago. She was cool. Yeah.

C: How's that process?

Yeah, usually, either the artist or the artists themselves hit me, or their manager hits me. I just shot a couple of blocks away from here, like, two weeks ago. I was shooting this artist named Mula. MulaManDam. He's hard, and he makes drill music.

C: And they wanted your style. Are you hard-headed because you still want to protect your style and portray your art?

Absolutely.

C: Okay, so how's that struggle finding that middle ground for certain people's styles while also showing that it's your art?

It's not a struggle just because you're not gonna hit me up and not expect this. You know what I'm saying? I feel like my work right now is pretty consistent, in its style, I suppose. So, they'll send me a reference, but they don't need it to be exactly like the reference. They want to have my spin on that reference if that makes sense.

E: Do you feel like you own that, though? Like you spent years building it up, and now that's like your shit? Or are you always trying to expand what people think of your work?

I am always trying to expand my horizons. My style kind of just fell into my lap, though.

E: You didn't work for it?

No, I worked for it because I was shooting a lot. But, like, I wasn't like in the crib scheming like, "Bro, it's gonna look real spotlighty." You know what I'm saying? I think I just started playing with the things I liked and honed in on them. I kept using the same things, and I just got better using the tools that I had.

MISTAKES 

E: Have you ever made any mistakes regarding your photography journey?

 I feel like I should have shot more when I started. Just because the things I was around at the time would have made for such good photos. But I was busy having fun. So that's chill. But I think photography, to me, feels like seizing opportunities like that. So the more you take photos, the more good shit you're gonna have. People have to pick up their cameras more, including me. 

E: Do you want to elaborate on what you mean by the things that you were around during that time?

I was going to so many parties at the time because I started taking photos near COVID-19, like when everything was shut down. We all should have been inside, but we were so outside. It was fucked up. At a bunch of outdoor raves and some more shit like...

C: Oh yeah, y'all were fucking up the population.

Nah, we were fucking up the population badly, bro.

E: Do you remember Andy's interview?

Me, Andy, Albert, we're having a fucking time.

C: This nigga, Andy said people were dying. But niggas was getting paid, bro.

Like, yo, Albert, imagine niggas taking photos during the Bridge Boys day. That'd be ridiculous. It would have been magical, bro. I think I'm not good at taking photos when hanging out. But I kind of want to get better at that.

C: Does photography feel like more of a larger task for you? When you have that camera in your hand, it's time to lock in. Or is it very likely you can play around with it?

It's so time to lock in when I have a camera.  Well, I'm serious, but it's still like chill. It’s just that when I'm taking photos, I have lights with me and shit. Bro, you can ask any of my friends. We'll be hanging out. If I have my camera on me, I'll be like, can I take your flick? And I'm tapping in one of the bros like, can you hold this light for me? And I'm lighting you up wherever we're at.  It is kind of like a thing of its own.

E: What would you say inspires you the most? Environment? You mentioned you were from Jersey.

Not really.

E: So it's fuck Jersey?

Not really. Jersey influences me in very funny ways. For example, I like fast music because of Jersey.

C: You be rockin' your hips.

You know what? I don't have that down, but I aspire to rock my hips more.

E: I like that, bro. I need to get on that.

You could do that. You seem like you could wiggle for sure.

E: Really Sugar?  I don't think I could ever do that.

C: No bro, he can’t. It's bad.

E: I'm trying to learn the dap

Dap me up real quick.

[ETHAN & SUGAR DAP UP]

Nigga, you are doing it. That was a clean dap up.

WHAT INSPIRES YOU

C: any artist that inspired you?

Oh, yeah. Fucking, there's this one director, I think his name is Shinya Tsukamoto. He made this movie called Bullet Ballet. That's super tough.

C: Like, what about that movie or what about that director?

The thing about him specifically is that he's like a one-man army. But I say army, so specifically because he's like a fucking soldier. His style is almost abrasive. It feels like he's flexing the whole movie. Like how good he is at this shit. And he's acting in it. You know what I mean. And he's not giving himself a lazy role. The colors in his movies are really good. The way he moves the camera, it's super shaky. It almost feels like the camera's running or sprinting. It’s super energetic and demands the audience's attention. Yeah, he's just super sick. He's inspiring. I feel like no one can fuck with him film-wise. 

C: You mentioned you play a lot with colors, probably because of that guy.

Not because of him.

C: But you know what I'm saying? He was a big inspiration, I guess. Not you checking my shit, bro. Fuck. When I asked you one question we shouldn't ask, you asked how I got my colors. Is there a reason why you're not trying to give out the sauce? Do you think artists should earn their sauce?

I think the sauce gotta find you, brother.

C: Even if you give out the sauce, they are still not gonna hit it like you do.

No, for sure. But sometimes people try to. It’s all just light metering at the end of the day honestly.

E: Colors are your box logo.

No, that's not my box logo.

E: I want that to be what we do every time.

Y'all be hitting niggas with a box logo? What the fuck?

C: Bro, Rose’ homie; Ray was like, "I love Valentine's Day shoots." It's like, "Oh, I really love them." And Ethan awas like, "Oh, so that's your box logo?"

The fact that I'm wearing a box logo right now is fucking hilarious.

C: Is it more of a thing that you feel threatened by them?

I don't even know. The thing is, bro if we're kicking it and we're homies and someone's like, yo, what do you use? I'll say like, yeah, I use this. But there will be people who DM me and ask, yo, what camera do you use? What lens is this? What light is this? Send me the link. I'm like, bro, I don't want to fucking do that. Yeah, I think people are too prideful. Like, bro, I don't want to look like nobody at all.

E: But also, I think when it comes to equipment, everybody was putting so much emphasis on equipment. But, like, remember Rina, she shoots on like an old small camera. No, but what she says, everyone thinks I'm shooting on this super high-quality camera, but it's like some shit I got when I was like eight. And I think at the end of the day, it's like, you know, someone could ask you for literally every single piece of equipment you have. They're still not going to touch the sugar magic, bro.

Oh my god. I feel you.

C: Sugar dust.

The sugar dust is crazy.

FILMS

C: We've been talking a little bit about photography. Let's get into a little bit of video. I know you have a little joint coming up. Let's talk about the past. You wrote and directed a short film called Autumn. Talk about that. How was that? How did that come about?

That was sick. It's funny how Autumn happened. So me and Albert...

E: Albert is here, guys, by the way.

Albert is always with me, even in spirit. I tried to make a short film, like a year before Autumn was made, with a different actor, but we never finished it for whatever reason. And me and Albert were on FaceTime. He said, "Yo, what are we doing with that?" I was like, "Yeah, we probably should finish that." We set it up like two weeks later. And just bodied that. Yeah, it was sick. And the actor who played Autumn hit me up a few months before that. Like, "Yo, if you ever need somebody, let me know." And she fucking murdered it. She's one of my favorite actors, low-key. Her name's Vishwa Chitnis.

E: So, how was that experience? It's just your first time doing a short film, and you've always wanted to go into videography.

It's so scary. Just 'cause I suck at explaining myself so much. It's the worst. And directing is explaining yourself and fixing shit all day. And being fast, which I'm not good at. But I like films, so they're fun anyway. I think it was chill just 'cause I try to afford myself a lot of patience so I don't get discouraged when I'm not good at something. So it ended up being good any way.

C: So, taking that, what you know now from your first joint, I know you're working on a new joint. 'Cause Lucy told me that she's your PA?

She's my PA, yeah.

C: Talk about that joint. What's that joint gonna be about? A little sneak peek for the folk?

I can't talk about it, brother. 

C: So we can't get anything?

I can say it's gonna be really good.

C: How's the experience right now shooting it compared to your first one?

It's way harder. Yeah, it's way harder. It's more shoot days, and it's way more actors. So you know how I mentioned all the stuff I said I wasn't good at yet, I'm still not great at those things. So I feel like it's fun but challenging, and I'm learning a lot from the new film. And I'm excited to show it to everybody.

C: Is there a timeline for when that joint's dropping?

You will see it in the summer. It might not be out yet, but I'll screen it by then.

WORKING WITH FRIENDS

C: Are there any complications working with the homies? Obviously, you have a set rate, and you want to get your pay.

I'll give my friends anything.

C: So you get the homie discount? Do you believe in the homie discount?

Absolutely. Well, we have to really be homies, though. Like, for real. But if the homie can afford, nigga, pay me. I guess, it depends. Like, I can never charge Albert for anything.

C: That's good that you show love to the homies, though. Like many artists, as soon as they get a little bit bigger, they start shooting for photographers, like artists and bigger things. They lose them, themselves, a little bit. That's good that you still show love.

No, for sure. Honestly, earlier, you were talking about the self-driven thing. But honestly, niggas would not even get photos from me if it wasn't for the homies. For example, people let me borrow their clothes whenever I need outfits. My friends will assist me whenever I need help. Albert's developed every roll I've ever done. Just off the strength, you know what I mean?

C: So it's a real communal effort type shit.

It is a real communal effort.

C: And what does that mean for you now? Do you try to show that in your photography as well?

I try to. I think it makes photos age well for me personally. I'll take photos of Jupiter, and I'm almost building a world around Jupiter specifically because we've shot multiple times. So those photos just mean a lot to me. Also, she just looks sick, and now she has those photos forever.

DREAM SHOOT 

E: So outside of that, like outside of working in the community you've curated for yourself, do you have any dream artists you'd want to work with?

Um, dream artists.

C: Or, like, what would be your dream project?

I just want to make movies. Bro, I don't even know the dream movie. That's just a rough idea. I want to make a movie for African kids.

C: Sandlot for Africans 

Sandlot for Africans Yeah, just something for young niggas to relate to, black kids who kinda fit in between cultures like a lot of us do. And I really want to shoot for Supreme. I feel like I'm going to.

C: What about for Arc'teryx?

Yeah, working on that.

Saint Laurent, i-D magazine, Bro, Calvin Klein. You know that billboard in Soho? I need it badly.

E: Who would you put there, though?

Yo, I would love to put my friends up there, like Andy, Shandon, Albert. Just because

C: Chris N, 

Chris—Chris N for sure. Bro. Ooh, actually. I love Andy and Shandon. But I would love to shoot Jade for Calvin Klein. Jade, my girlfriend.

C: Are there other mediums you'd like to explore besides photography and video?

Ooh, that's a good question, clothes. I want to have a fashion show. I don't even know if I'm trying to sell a bunch of clothes, but I would love a fashion show. I would love to do a skate video. I used to skate a lot. I wasn't good at tricks or anything, but I watched skate videos so much in high school. And, um, I watched fashion shows a lot, too, in high school. I was just talking to somebody about Alexander McQueen having this show called Joan of Arc. That shit fucked me up as a kid, bro. Like it was so good. Just cause like no one can do that. Like, who even thinks about that?

C: Alexander McQueen

Bro, there was like a ring of fire, and this girl was like in this draped-like look it was red.

E: Oh, um, you got anything else besides the short film that you're excited for, Sugar? Like anything else coming up?

I'm kind of just excited about life, bro. I feel like I felt so shitty last year. I feel so good right now. I've just been taking care of myself a bit more. Also, I'm just excited to do more videos with Albert. I feel like we've been doing cool shit this year.

C: Would you say that's your, who's Batman, who's Robin?

We are both Batman.

C: Or is it Batman, Superman type of thing?

I feel like we just switch spots. There are days when Albert needs me to be his ace. And then there are days when Albert's my ace.

That's fire 

E: Because Chris and I are always both Robin, like all the time. Neither of us is Batman. 

That's kind of hard, though. No, bro, that's cool.

That just means y'all are helping each other all the time.

E: Actually, Sugar, I got one more question, though.

You are scaring me, man.

E: Why couldn't I get the follow back, Sugar?

What? I didn't even know you followed me.

E: It was two weeks ago at about 2 a.m.

Nigga, what? If I'm being real, y'all can keep this in the interview. Bro, I don't want to be looking at notifications just because I don't want to be reading.

C: So, do you not fuck with Ethan or not?

No, I fuck with you, gang. I'll follow you right now.

E: Albert, back me up.

Nigga's pressing me at the interview. Bro, I have such a funny story.

When I heard you would do that, I was like, anybody that is not.

Yo, there was this one time. I don't know if you guys have met this guy named Gonzo. He's a close friend of ours. Me and Gonzo were at this party, and we met this dude. I forget his name. And bro was like, what's your Instagram, blah, blah, blah, right? And Gonzo was like, yo, I'm going to keep a stack with you, friend. That nigga is not going to follow you. I'm telling you this right now. And I was like, hey, bro, you don't know that. Like, I ain't even see his instagram, blah, blah, blah. 

Anyway, I didn't follow this nigga back. Boom. I'm getting interviewed for a job in Soho. Maybe two years later. I'm sitting down outside getting interviewed, bro. And this nigga walks by me, same guy I didn't follow back. And he's like, hey, yo, man, long time no see. I dap bro up. He's like, yo, your man was right. You didn't follow me back. And I was like, man, stop playing. Anyway, he fucking walks past. The person who was interviewing me somehow felt like she caught a stray. And was like, so you don't follow people back and it got hella awkward

C: What was this job?

Oh, it was for this store called Sleepy Jones. It was like a pajama place. Yeah, that shit was fun. Honestly, I wanted that job only because they wear pajamas all day. I was in Soho and was like, I'm gonna just skate to work in pajamas every day.

C: Do you want to give any shout-outs?

Shout out that nigga. Yeah, shout out. Shout out to God. You know what I'm saying?

C: You think God needs that?

God needs that. I love you, man. Anyway, shout out to god. Alhamdulillah. Shout out to my mom. Shout out to Jade. Shout out to Albert and Andy and Shandon and Chris and Ethan and the Johnsons and chicken sandwiches.

C: Rate that chicken sandwich while you had it, too.

That was a 10 out of 10 that shit was juicy.

Shout out to the homies. Shout out to you guys. Shout out, Wendy. It's her birthday. Shout out Brayan.

BIG THANK YOU TO BOTH ALBERT & SUGAR, BOOK THESE BOYS! ALSO CATCH SUGAR'S UPCOMING SHORT FILM, SCREENING SOON!

SUBJECT/BRAND : SUGAR M. SYLLA @yourpillowbook

PHOTOGRAPHER : ALBERT MORALES @adoremedearly

MODEL : SUGAR M. SYLLA @yourpillowbook

EDITOR : E&C* @acediastudios

TEXT : E&C* @acediastudios